Renee
Levi Interviews Dr. Natalie Rogers, On the Presence of Collective
Resonance in Group Process (continued)
RL: And then as you do that individually, how
does it affect the collective?
NR: When we’re dong the artwork all together
– I’ve often said this even though I’m not a church-goer
– it feels like a sacred space, like church. Everyone is focusing
on their artwork, whether it’s clay or collage, or anything
– it could be all different media at once. However, while each
person is focused on their own inner journey, the collective journey
seems like a light in the room or a sense of an energy atmosphere
- almost visible. I think that if I could see auras the energy would
be visible. I and the others in the group very easily experience
the energy. It really affects people.
RL: When you just said that, what color came
for you?
NR: Yellow. But I make that up because I don’t
see it. (laughter). I’m making up what I’m saying because
I don’t actually see that color. I’m not that attuned
to auras, but that’s the color I think I would see. That is
what I feel.
RL: And if I were to ask you again, right this
moment, being back in that amazing, palpable quiet. If you just
closed your eyes for a moment and you were there again in that space,
and you took a body scan, is there any part of your body right now
that’s just sort of…?
NR: Yes, my heart.
RL: Your heart.
NR: My heart.
RL: Okay…thank you.
NR: Heart chakra. Definitely.
RL: Wonderful. And so you said when everyone
is focused on his or her own inner journey, the collective journey
becomes just more powerful, right?
NR: Mm-hmm. It deepens everyone’s process.
RL: It deepens everyone’s process individually?
NR: Because of the collective energy. People
always talk about that.
RL: And vice-versa?
NR: What do you mean by that?
RL: Well, as it deepens individually, I would
imagine they’re putting more of their authentic self into the
space…
NR: Yes, definitely.
RL: …so the collective…
NR: …because it’s cyclical, like a
circle. The energy you give out comes back to increase the energy.
RL: Right. So by the end, because you’ve
done this iteration: they’re doing their art, then the journaling,
which is deeper yet, and they come together as a group?
NR: Mm-hmm.
RL: Describe that feeling.
NR: Well, first I have people talk in pairs or
triads, usually pairs, and the energy is very excited. It goes from
being very quiet to being highly energized as they discuss their
own inner journeys with each other. It’s not raucous, but it’s
very lively, very active, and very positive.
And then we come together as a whole group and I ask them to consider
what has been most important in their process. When we get back
into the large group to talk the shift goes again more to the left
brain. We think through what just happened and why it happened and
then, you know, what’s going on in each of us. People look
at the personal issues they want to further or deepen.
RL: So is there a point in time when everyone
is sitting together and actually dialoguing all together.
NR: Yes. I close almost every group with that
kind of a large circle. Even if there’s seventy people, I do
that.
RL: You do? And is there a ritual or anything
you do at the end?
NR: To close it?
RL: Mm-hmm. Just curious…I don’t know…
NR: Well, sometimes. With the Saybrook group
we did some sounding. You know, like om-ing!
RL: Wow.
NR: It was wonderful but then I made a huge mistake!
We were all very high in an altered state of consciousness. I let
them leave the room in that state. I forgot to ground people. And
I know better! Thank G-d they all got back to the hotel - it was
only two miles. I went over to the hotel for dinner, and within
the two miles I took two wrong exits myself!
RL: (laughter).
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Interview
with Dr. Natalie Rogers©, page 3 of 3
NR: Most of the students were sitting at one
table and I said, "Oh my G-d, I forgot to ground us!"
and they said, "Yeah, we were in such an altered state. We
didn’t know where we were going and got a little lost."
And I said, "Well don’t ever do what I did." I know
better. You know, there are ways that we always do it in our institute
training program.
RL: How do you do that? I’m curious.
NR: I get people to stand in pairs and I demonstrate
how you can just brush the aura down. Without even touching your
partner, you can bring the energy from the top of their head down
into the ground. Or sometimes I hold people’s feet on the ground.
I mean, we’re usually barefooted anyway.
RL: Back down to the first chakra and into the
earth.
NR: Right. And then the partner asks if their
"subject" wants to be touched, and again, the energy is
brushed down their body into the ground.
RL: (laughter). So you let them leave your studio
in the higher realms, right?
NR: Yes, and that can be dangerous.
RL: You know, this sounding… I’m just
curious…did it come up spontaneously or did you plan that?
NR: The om-ing? I guess it was spontaneous. I
don’t really remember. I may have suggested it.
RL: I’m curious because with that group
it began and ended with actual physical, sound resonance.
NR: Oh, I hadn’t thought of that.
RL: Because it was dancing and Marvin Gaye in
the beginning and then it was a felt need, I suppose, to chant or
do something resonant again.
NR: That would really pull us all together in
the same band,…(laughter)…same energy. And that was after
four days!
RL: Ah! Wow.
NR: A lot happened for each person. I received
a lot of feedback on how transformative it was.
RL: Natalie, that was just beautiful, thank you.
Just a couple more questions. This one, as I read it over sounds
a little trite for somebody like you. But, what value or significance
has your experience of collective resonance had for your life or
work?
NR: It’s interesting that trying to understanding
the collective, which is very difficult, has become part of my work.
It was never anything that I intended. I founded an expressive arts
institute in 1984. We’ve been doing intensive 400-hour training
programs. By the time people go through a couple hundred hours of
this, we are more and more aware of what’s going on in the
group. And when I first started the program, I thought it just had
to do with individuals, more like individual therapy within the
group. But what became apparent after feedback from the participants
was that this is a spiritual journey. The collective creates a transformative
space, a space to really connect with higher powers.
RL: I describe the group as a sensing organ.
The individual is of course important. But, for me, the importance
of this is in a world sense because we do work in groups and we
live in groups and we are in communities and we’re in nations.
How can a group’s "implicate order" - or the universal,
intelligence, guidance or wisdom beyond the individual human being
or individual group of human beings – be accessed? How can
we be sensing organs for what is trying to be heard? How can we
voice what’s already there? And how can we manifest it? How
can we express it? How can we counteract the shadow sides of what
groups can do? This is what we’re seeing.
NR: What we’re experiencing, yes.
RL: …What we’re experiencing more and
more. So actually the underlying purpose of my study is really for
the individual to bring to his or her own consciousness the experiences
that they may have had. It brings the felt sense to conscious attention,
like the right/left brain shifting you spoke of earlier. It also,
I think, raises the vibrational level. We begin to talk about it
together and it raises the whole collective consciousness to counterbalance
the opposite forces.
NR: I think all that’s happening on the
Internet now, describing how people all over the world who are meditating
or saying prayers for peace at certain times of day, do make shifts.
If I’d heard about this kind of behavior twenty years ago I
would have thought that it was just gobbledygook, but now I find
it’s really true. Research is being done at Harvard Medical
School and other places about people healing physically when prayed
for. I would have thought that was ridiculous a few years ago.
RL: Yes. Well, Natalie, I’m afraid it’s
time to close although I would love to explore this with you further.
Perhaps we will. My deepest appreciation for sharing your time,
thoughts, and feelings.
Renee
Levi, Ph.D. is founder and director of The Resonance Project,
a foundation dedicated to furthering research into and practice
of collective resonance, the subject of her seminal doctoral research.
www.resonanceproject.org.
Trained
as an organizational consultant, she is also principal of Resonance
Consulting, a firm specializing in individual and organizational
transformation through collaborative decision-making processes.
As speaker, writer, facilitator, and researcher, Dr. Levi’s
hope is to help amplify collective resonance toward positive action
in the world.
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